Monica Eav Glicken on Public Law Center, UCI Law Collaboration, and the Unique Legal Community of Orange County

UCI Law Dean Austen Parrish interviews Monica Eav Glicken, Executive Director and General Counsel of the Public Law Center (PLC), on how the PLC is fighting for justice in Orange County, her career in immigration law and public interest work, the unique Orange County legal community, the work UCI Law students do with the PLC, and her advice for law students. 

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  • Austen Parrish

    UCI Law Dean and Chancellor’s Professor of Law
    Expertise: Transnational Law and Litigation, Civil Procedure, Constitutional Law, Federal Courts

    Austen Parrish assumed the role of Dean and Chancellor's Professor of Law of the University of California, Irvine School of Law in August 2022, becoming its third dean. He previously served as the Dean and James H. Rudy Professor of Law at Indiana University Maurer School of Law. In 2018 and again in 2021, he was named a Wells Scholars Professor for his work with Indiana University’s prestigious Wells Scholars program. In 2019, he was bestowed with IU’s Bicentennial Medal and, in 2022, he was awarded the Provost’s Medal, the highest honor bestowed by the Office of the Provost, recognizing outstanding and transformative contributions to Indiana University Bloomington. He serves on the board of directors of AccessLex Institute and is an elected member of the American Law Institute. Prior to academia, Parrish practiced law at O'Melveny & Myers LLP in Los Angeles. He earned his law degree from Columbia University.

  • Monica Eav Glicken

    Executive Director and General Counsel of Public Law Center (PLC)

    Monica served as the Directing Attorney of PLC’s Immigration Unit from 2018 to 2022 and is a State Bar-certified Immigration Law expert. After graduating magna cum laude in Literature from Harvard University, Monica served as a Fulbright Fellow in the Philippines and a Corps Member and Service Team Leader with City Year Greater Philadelphia, an non-profit organization focused on youth education and development. Monica then graduated cum laude from Harvard Law School and clerked for the Honorable Anita B. Brody of the U.S. District Court, Eastern District of Pennsylvania. Monica began her career in Immigration Law as an Attorney Advisor at the Immigration Court in Chicago, Illinois. A decade-long tenure in private practice followed in both Chicago and Seal Beach, California. Prior to joining PLC, Monica served as a Counseling Attorney and Adjunct Lecturer in UC Irvine School of Law’s Immigration Rights Clinic. As the child of immigrants from Cambodia and the Philippines, Monica is a long-time advocate for those who must fight to be heard, working tirelessly to promote greater access to justice and community empowerment, particularly for the most vulnerable.

Podcast Transcript

Intro [00:00:04] Welcome to UCI Law Talks from the University of California, Irvine School of Law. For all our latest news, follow UCI Law on Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn.

Austen Parrish [00:00:22] Good morning. Thank you for joining us. My name is Austen Parrish. I'm the Dean and Chancellor's Professor at the University of California, Irvine School of Law. This is UCI Law Talks, the podcast where you get to learn more about the amazing Anteater community that is UCI Law, but also get to hear from leaders and lawyers of Orange County and a glimpse into why we have such an innovative and inspiring legal profession here in southern California. Today, we're extremely fortunate that Monica Glicken, the executive director of the Public Law Center is joining us. Monica, so nice to have you on the podcast.

Monica Eav Glicken [00:00:52] It's great to be with you also, and thanks for asking me to join you.

Austen Parrish [00:00:55] Well, it's great to see. Hey, let's jump right in. I think many of our listeners know the Public Law Center, but maybe you could tell us a little bit about it. What is the Public Law Center and what do you do?

Monica Eav Glicken [00:01:06] So the Public Law Center is a nonprofit pro-bono law firm. Orange County, born and raised, first started in the eighties from a small group, motivated volunteer lawyers and judges and community members that wanted to get the community together, to get more lawyers out there volunteering their time and wanted to take to the courts to fight some of the injustices inequities they saw happening in Orange County in the eighties. So that is what Public Law Center has always been. Until today, we provide completely free legal services to low income residents of Orange County. We're trying to hit all the areas that are high need for low income folks. So we're talking about housing law, such as issues with evictions or landlords. We're talking about legal advice and services to microbusinesses and emerging non-profits in Orange County. Family law like printing orders against abusers. Consumer law, including bankruptcy issues or debt collection that's become abusive. Immigration services, health law. Veterans benefits and discharge upgrades. And even federal tax help. So these are some of the areas that we serve. And we are unique also in that not only we are nonprofit and we don't charge for our services, we also do not discriminate for our clients based on documentation status. So we are open to any member of the Orange County community if they have these legal needs and they cannot afford a lawyer of their own, and we don't just screen for that. So that is who we are and that's what we do from the beginning of our history in the eighties up until now, have this focus on both bringing members of the legal community in to help meet these needs of the community and use our skills as lawyers, use the tools, legal tools that we have available to us and the system to fight back against things that are wrong and make things better for low income communities in Orange County.

Austen Parrish [00:02:56] That's a long list of things that Public Law Center does. About how many lawyers do you have working with you at any point of time?

Monica Eav Glicken [00:03:02] We've grown quite a bit over the past several years, so currently we're at about a staff of 60, which is about 3540 lawyers at any given time, though, hiring. So there are many UCI alums out there who are looking to make that jump into public interest law. We have several positions open in housing, consumer and immigration at the moment.

Austen Parrish [00:03:23] It does so many amazing things. Are there some impact that have happened in the last six months or a year that you're particularly proud of?

Monica Eav Glicken [00:03:30] I think the thing I am proud about is the extent to which we have been able to soldier on during the pandemic. I mean, to say that just surviving is an achievement, but maybe I am saying that because it has been incredibly difficult, of course, for everybody. But we never closed our doors. We never turned off our phone lines. You know, we a nonprofit, we're trying to do the most we can on a shoestring budget. We didn't start out with the technology to be able to even fully provide remote services when we had to close down in March of 2020. But we persisted. And with all of the challenges that our low income communities were facing due to the pandemic, such as of course losing jobs, losing income, housing insecurity, rise in immigration enforcement during the previous administration, all of these challenges. Our team never gave up, and we found ways we were creative. We found ways to keep going and stand by our community during the absolute worst crisis time. So I think that's really for the past few years, the thing that I'm proudest of, that we kept going and kept our doors open and we didn't reduce our services, stood by the community during a time of heightened, heightened need.

Austen Parrish [00:04:39] Yes. So important, as you say, that need did skyrocket during the pandemic and still seems out there. Yeah. One of the big news about Public Law Center, I think, is you right, you're the new executive director. You haven't been there too long. When did you step into the executive director role?

Monica Eav Glicken [00:04:54] Yes, you're right, Austen. So my amazing predecessor, Ken Babcock, led the public walk on for 22 years, and he announced his retirement by the middle of 2022. And then in October of 2022, after a nationwide search, I was selected to be his successor and then took the reins officially in January of this year, 2023.

Austen Parrish [00:05:14] Congratulations. Just for our listeners and many of our listeners, our anteaters who are either law students or aspiring law students, what does it mean to be an executive director and what do you do? Can you can you take me a little bit to the day of your life as you're working with PSC?

Monica Eav Glicken [00:05:29] Yeah. So being an executive director of the Public Law Center of a nonprofit law firm is basically just being a CEO of a law firm, but one that doesn't charge its clients. So in the CEO role, I'm overseeing everything about keeping us afloat, trying to improve things and make things better for our staff, for the clients we serve, trying to look at ways that we can strategically think about maybe how we make more of a difference, how we make even more with what we have and make the most out of the resources we have. How can I get us more resources? So these are some of the things that come into my role. But essentially, yes, I'm just the CEO of this nonprofit law firm and running a law firm, but without the money coming from the clients.

Austen Parrish [00:06:10] That makes sense. Being the CEO, right, of, as you say, of a nonprofit, it also means you're a public interest lawyer. Maybe you could talk a little bit about that. What does it mean to be a public interest lawyer and why is that important?

Monica Eav Glicken [00:06:20] So my favorite topic, before I became the executive director of the Public Law Center, I was leading our immigration unit for the previous five years. So as an immigration unit directing attorney, I both led our immigration team and had my own caseload, and my entire career has been in immigration law. I'm actually one of those people that went to law school with a couple ideas in my head about what I thought I wanted to do. When I went to law school, I was thinking either I wanted to be international human rights lawyer. Well, sure, exactly what that would mean. But I had that kind of idea in my head or be an immigration lawyer, which was something I'd volunteered in during college and after college, did have that idea in my mind as a possible career path. And then as I did, different internships, summers in law school, I really solidify that immigration law was going to be a good fit for me and a good field and something I could be really passionate about. So after law school, I did do a couple of clerkships. I clerked for a federal district court judge in Philadelphia. I clerked for the immigration court in Chicago. And then after that, my entire career has been immigration law. So first I practiced immigration law in a boutique immigration law firm in Chicago. And this is a thing that exists that people don't know. There are such things as public interest law firms which do charge clients but try to charge fees that are more reasonable so that working class folks can afford them and are practicing law in areas that are of high need for disadvantaged or challenged communities. So I did that for eight years in Chicago, then for family reasons, decided to relocate to Southern California when I had my first kid. So when we came here I was at a crossroads in my professional life, but I had to figure out what to do next. And I actually ended up opening my own law firm, my own practice as a solo practitioner for a year. But even during that first year of my practice, I was doing a lot of pro bono work and volunteer work, including with the Public Law Center, including working with UCI. Immigrant Rights Clinic. And really realized that as great as it is to be your own boss, there are certainly perks to being your own boss. I was really missing that collaboration and that excitement and that passion you get of being a part of a team of people who are all passionate about the law we're doing and making a difference. There's no energy like that. So I been already working with the Public Law Center. There was an opening leading immigration unit. They kind of recruited me, invited me to apply. I did. And here I am. And I never look back. Though being a public interest lawyer, nothing is, of course, easy in this role. Nothing is, I don't know. Three is a weird way to say it, but what I think what we give up in perhaps salary and compensation financially for what we do more than make up for with what is really the luxury, the privilege of feeling passionate about what you do every day, knowing every day when you get up for work that your work is making a difference in the world to an individual or to a particular family, that you never have to doubt that. And I'm definitely the kind of person that all the money in the world can't make up for me, can't get me motivated to get up in the morning if I hate what I'm doing. So call that spoiled or whatever it might be. Certainly, you know, my parents generation maybe didn't think that way necessarily about work, but I felt that way. And I would say I feel very good about the choices I made in my career to really dedicate my career to public interest.

Austen Parrish [00:09:41] And what an amazing career you've had. So I was I was Google stalking your resume a little bit. You know, it sounds like you've lived and worked in many places. You know, over your career. I think I saw you were in Washington, D.C. You mentioned that you were in Boston and you mentioned Chicago. Philadelphia. I think I saw Fort Collins, Colorado, Budapest, Hungary, the Philippines. You know, in some ways, though, it gives you a great perspective on Orange County and the Orange County legal community. And maybe you could talk about what you find most inspiring about Orange County, Irvine and Santa Ana and the places where Public Law Center does its work and what makes the legal community special here.

Monica Eav Glicken [00:10:19] And the transplant to Orange County. I have a unique and special maybe or I have a particular perspective, maybe as an outsider. And I think one of the things I was so pleasantly surprised about with the Orange County legal community is how how collegial and tight knit it is, as Orange County is actually not small at all. It is a large county, lots of lawyers. It's actually very big. But somehow the feel of it is quite small. It's a very special legal community. I've loved everywhere that I lived and practice law. But I do think there's something very unique about Orange County. It feels small town, even though it's big, which is so special. And I think that's something that a, you know, they can't they can't offer they can't get that over enough. Like L.A. is so big. And definitely there's not the same feeling of community in the L.A. bar that there is in Orange County.

Austen Parrish [00:11:07] You know, I've noticed that, too. In part, you just see the same faces at different events. I think what's remarkable is not just the the close knit and collegial aspect of it, but just how high quality the lawyers are. It seems like the best of both worlds right here. You're nestled in between two of the largest legal markets in the nation between L.A. and San Diego. And then you've got these amazing lawyers that have decided to call the Orange County home. And that must make a big difference for a place like Public Law Center to have volunteers coming from all over that they really know what they're doing.

Monica Eav Glicken [00:11:39] Yes, of course. The one thing I would add to that as well that I think is really I think it really unique about Orange County is our our bench, our judicial officers in Orange County on both the federal and here in court levels are actually active in bar events. They get to know the lawyers that practiced before them. And that's that's really unique and special. And it is not the same in every legal community, in every major urban legal community in the United States, I can tell you that. So that's another thing, that special ingredient, like our magic stuff that we have in Orange County, and it makes things like collaboration possible here that are really unique to Orange County. So one example is there was a judge who was then, let's see, I think she was at that time fighting over the probate court. Was that what it was? Judge motto? And she saw an issue that there were a certain kind of class of litigants that weren't being represented in these certain types of hearings. And it caused this power imbalance because the other side always was. And, you know, she reached out and had a conversation with Public Law Center about, hey, would you guys be interested in filling this gap, this thing that is making the justice system not work because of this power imbalance? Would you guys be interested in partnering and getting involved in this, even at the scales, a bit like that kind of initiative on the part of the bench and that kind of collaboration with the nonprofit sector? That's a really special example of something that actually happens all the time in Orange County, and I think we forget how unique that is.

Austen Parrish [00:13:06] Yeah, no, I think you're right. You know, I've seen this as well through many communities in the United States. If you can get that nice mix where the bench and the bar and the public and private are working together can make such a big difference in the lives of the community and the functioning of the legal system. On that note, you know, we're on the eve of students coming back to law school. I can't believe it's August already and the summer's over. Public Law Center works with so many of our students, so many aspiring lawyers. Maybe, you know, two questions. How do students become involved with Public Law Center and what advice do you have for students who are interested in public service or would like to have a public interest career?

Monica Eav Glicken [00:13:41] We love, love, Love are UCI law student volunteers and we integrate. UCI has been volunteers in all of our programs all year round. UCI has an incredible dedication to pro-bono service that is woven into the fabric of the legal education there and frankly is one of the things that really makes UCI law students, law grads very special because not only were they already an excellent class of students going in based on things like test scores and grades, they were already excellent students going in. But then through involvement in these clinics and in pro bono engagement, they gain real world skills and perspective and abilities that actually make them just a little bit more mature and a little bit they hit the ground running faster. So it's a really special thing that we post every semester. A number of projects that law students can get involved with policy. They do require some kind of commitment for the semester. Some are as low as 5 to 10 hours, some are slightly more substantial. But during term time, we don't expect more than that. Usually we do occasionally have. One day clinics that are available for law students to get involved in for just one day. And then during the summers, we have a class of summer law clerks that provide full time service for ten weeks in one of our practice areas and really get real world experience working directly with clients on cases, real life cases, and truly helping us to increase our capacity to to help the community. So those are all the different way that we like to integrate. You see, I lost in everything we do. And I will say, of course, we are here by the law students, providing them with skills and education and mentorship. But it also for us is a real contribution to the community. It's part of that spirit of trying to do more with less that we have in the nonprofit world. It's not a symbolic thing. It's not to just give law students something on their resume. We really rely on law students to help us serve the community in real ways. So our lessons are not, you know, just making copies or getting coffee. They are truly doing real life legal work on cases.

Austen Parrish [00:15:50] Yeah, no, I appreciate that. And they are wonderful. I was that. Sure. I guess it is now. A couple of months ago I was at your annual auction event and caught up with the UK law cohort there. And you certainly were lucky this year You had some amazing students, at least from my perspective, as sort of, you know, some of our leaders in the community. I think a lot of the community doesn't realize just how unique the pro bono program is at UK law. It's one of the reasons I'm sort of kind of most proud. We probably have one of the largest pro-bono programs in the nation. Four years ago we were ranked number third in the United States for the amount of pro-bono volunteer hours our students commit each year. And then our clinical program, which is also a major outreach effort, is consistently ranked in the top five programs in the nation, which is, you know, I think it's remarkable these days to be able to build a law school that not only has a world class legal education, but views that the basis of getting a world class legal education is having students actually work with live clients father in law school. So anyway, we're really grateful for the partnership here at Public Law Center has always been a major part of that. It's great that you have so much support for students as our students arrive. I guess maybe I should ask you what advice you have for them as they're starting law school. And, you know, I might just ask you to reflect on your own experience. Do you remember when you started and are there memories of your own law school experience that are most vivid or things you remember most finally?

Monica Eav Glicken [00:17:09] Well, those are great questions. I'm going to start real detailed and practical and then go a little bit more. Big picture. One piece of advice I give to law students is really practical, which is take whatever it's called now, but take corporations, takes tax. And I would even throw in there, I would consider taking accounting, especially if you were a law student like me that was humanities major and not necessarily your thinking. And that's not your corporate path is not your path, really doesn't matter what path you take. We as lawyers should all understand the laws that make America run. And you can't understand that unless you understand our corporate legal structure, our tax and legal structure. And like accounting, I would actually throw in there. I think that is a regret I have in law school. I wish I had actually taken accounting. So I tell students that no matter what their path, they're telling me, no, I want to be an immigration lawyer like you and defend people against deportation. I'm like, great, great, great. Take corporations, take tax and consider taking accounting. It's a strange thing I found in law school where it was almost the opposite of college, where in college I would pick a class based on the title. And if a title sounded like really cool and interesting, I majored in it. So it was like postcolonial literature and representation of the I don't even know what something. And in African novels I'd be like, That sounds interesting. I'll take that. In law school, the courses that are the most fascinating do not necessarily have the most fascinating titles. So look at your course selections in a different way. You were like me, and that was how you judged courses. I was consistently surprised in law school that, of course, that I found the most fascinating were the ones that sounded the driest. An administrative law. That's the court one make sure to take administrative law is not required that the other the other thing you need to know about as a lawyer to understand how America runs.

Austen Parrish [00:19:00] You know, I think that's such great advice, you know, partly because I think, you know, you want not only those short term skills, but you want that sort of long term sort of foundation. You know, I also tell people the opposite, right? If you're somebody who's coming to law school who want to wants to do corporate law, you want to be an M&A lawyer, you want to do private equity, you want to do high finance, whatever it is. You're the type of person who really should deeply invested pro-bono doing public service while you're in law school, because it teaches you all those client interviewing and empathy and and sort of basic skills that are critical for being successful in the corporate world. You said, Yes, which I love. I take it you're agreeing with me.

Monica Eav Glicken [00:19:35] I totally agree with you. It's funny, because part of also well, you have law students coming to law school at different later in life. Some of them are coming straight out of college. Some have worked for a while. Some and then this is a career shift as a mid-career. So maybe advice would be a little bit different depending on. Where people are at in their lives. But poor is an expensive endeavor. Though it is important to you don't know yourself, get to know yourself and then start to be really self aware about kind of where your hold are and where your strength. And I agree with you, this is actually a time to think about how come out of law school the most well-rounded lawyer possible and not just lean into the things that you think you're already interested in. So I completely agree. For people who want to go into it doesn't matter in litigation. A top tier law firm. Absolutely. They need to think about getting super involved in pro bono work. And I just moderated a panel discussion where someone who is a judge now, but when she she was an associate at a big law firm and Orange County office, and she was part of a team that worked on an asylum case that was on appeal before the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. And actually, she was the one who ended up doing the oral argument in front of the Ninth Circuit panel, and they won. And it became actually a precedent setting case. So she is a first year, second year lawyer, helped work on a precedent setting case that actually changed an aspect of immigration law at that time. And she said it consistently came up in her interviews when she was interviewing to become a judge. So as I said in that discussion, I'll say the lessons, too. You don't do pro bono work to look good on your resume. You do it to try to get engaged with and get a better understanding of what it means to be a lawyer and that, frankly, it can be really fun and it can really help you stay engaged with the parts of your studies that are dry, but just know that there is also the side benefit to it, that it can actually help advance your career and and make you a better lawyer and more successful as a lawyer as well.

Austen Parrish [00:21:25] Yeah, I so much agree with that. I had a similar experience where I did an asylum case with the Lawyers Committee for Human Rights along with Davis Polk when I was in law school. And what a great writing experience, fabulous research experience. And and as you said, sort of an insight into how the courts act. Well, in this case, we were in front of an ALJ, But actually how the how the process actually works, which was which was phenomenal really to be able to get that insight. You know, you emphasize something else there, which I think is so important. I do think these days are good legal education. Right. It's you know, I think in the past people would sort of separate community work and pro bono work from the core of legal education. And yet I do think the best the best programs out there sort of understand you've got to integrate them, that their learning through doing is critical. And, you know, you've got to build that foundation of knowledge, but you've also got to build those skills and and being able to have it in a sort of a safe place where you've got a supervising attorney who knows what they're doing well in law school is such a great way to sort of launch a career and and get some real experience before you actually have to do it on your own.

Monica Eav Glicken [00:22:25] Absolutely. Absolutely. I totally agree with that.

Austen Parrish [00:22:28] Yeah. So, you know, if you're in the legal community in Orange County, whether you're a student or a practicing lawyer and you want to get involved and get backed by working or volunteering through the Public Law Center, how would you do it? How would somebody go about connecting?

Monica Eav Glicken [00:22:40] Well, we have ongoing opportunities of different kind of depth of commitment. Easy way, if nothing else. You know, remember anything else you can email. Volunteer at Public Law Center dot org. And that will go to our pro-bono coordinator with Angela mester. And you can start that conversation and she can talk about your availabilities and what kind of pique your interest and go from there. We always have, of course, individual cases of people who are looking for full scope representation from nuts to bolts of their case. We have cases that involve appearing in court. We have cases that are what we call transactional, where it's about preparing papers, filing papers, getting answers back by mail. We have short term clinics where you can just show up and give the best you can of their your time for that afternoon or that day. We have a range of different opportunities and levels of engagement. The one thing I would put out there though, is that like everything in life, when exercised time with family, whatever it is you do, get out what you put in. So I will say all of the pro-bono attorneys I've spoke to over the years have worked on something like public loss or the experiences that have been the most impactful have been the ones where they really got in there and had a deep commitment to a case and their client. So I encourage anybody who is thinking about getting involved to dip your toe in, maybe get involved with a clinic here or there if you want. But but I encourage people to go ahead and jump in and not be afraid of jumping into a for a for case commitment will be there to help you figure it out and navigate it. It's one of those things where you won't know until you're the end, maybe, but you will get so much more out of the experience. If you do put in, you are willing to commit a bit more time and energy to it.

Austen Parrish [00:24:19] That makes such good sense. You know, I was writing it down quickly and I didn't quite get it. Can you give me the email again that you said people should reach out to?

Monica Eav Glicken [00:24:27] It's volunteer at Public Law Center dot org.

Austen Parrish [00:24:30] Now, that's great. That's great. Well, Monica, it's been an absolute pleasure. Any final words before we end this episode of U.S. Law Talks?

Monica Eav Glicken [00:24:40] Well, now I'm going to make explicit my secret mission of doing this podcast often, which is to try to recruit more legal warriors to join us in the public interest law world and specifically join the ranks of public life. And I'm just going to put out there that, you know, here I am, I'm in my mid-forties, I have a family, I have this career. It is possible to do public interest law and still enjoy life. You still get to have the nice things in life like going out to eat, going on vacations. It doesn't mean living a life of abstinence and total poverty and taking a vow of poverty. And then what you get in return is is truly getting that level of passion and excitement about your job. Every legal panel I ever spoke on before law students are college students. I was the only lawyer on the panel that said, I love what I do. I love what I do every day. I feel amazing about the work I've done and every other lawyer on the panel who is working within government or in our big law, no offense to big law, but they were like, Oh, well, now that I can quit, say the thing. So don't discount that because we all have financial realities of life. But I just want to put it out there that if possible, to have a fulfilling life that doesn't require some kind of heroic sacrifice on your part and have a fulfilling career and that exists in the public interest world, they'll consider it and go to a public work law center board under our career pages. If you want to see our openings again, we're happy to have anybody who has that Harper public interest and wants to join in, join in with us. We are looking for you.

Austen Parrish [00:26:08] You know, I think, you know, we have so many students that come to U.S. law that is interested in a public interest law career. And many of them go into that. Sometimes they they learn new things that they never really expected as they're starting law school and they realize they had different paths. But I do think it's something you mentioned, how few students realize how plausible it is. Right? We have a loan forgiveness program for students that are earning under $90,000. We supplement any federal loans payments so they have a an income based payment plan. The federal government is still very generous for people who dedicate at least ten years to public interest or government work in a way of helping with both limiting the payment options and ultimately full loan forgiveness. To be honest, I actually think I think public interest careers in some ways are sometimes the most financially easier than hanging up your own shingle. And then I think what you said earlier, like what amazing legal experience as well, right? It's not only you get to help people, but you're doing law at the very highest ends in some ways. And and as you say, you each day making a difference. So I appreciate you mentioning I think that will resonate with our listeners and certainly our our incoming students.

Monica Eav Glicken [00:27:12] So I'll put out there. I've I've been in the shoes of not have any lawyers in your family and try to even just understand what our jobs in the legal world and what are the pros and cons. So I've never said no to a student that wanted to talk to me about my path or legal career. So I'll put it out here on our podcast if you want to talk to me about that, I'm happy to meet up with you by Zoom or coffee. Monica Glicken Public Law Center dot org. Shoot me an email. And I think even at public affairs you got word and happy to talk about this and any student who has met with me know I will be very real with you about the you know, what are the financial challenges, the family work, life balance, all of that. But I will tell you, in the end, I'll still come out in favor of a public and career.

Austen Parrish [00:27:57] Well, Monica, thank you for spending your morning with us. It's been great talking to you. Thanks for being such a good friend for U.S. law and for all you do for the community through Public Law Center. You know, I'm sure I'm going to see you at some policy events. Otherwise, I hope to see you on the UCI campus. Thanks for joining us, UCI Law Talks.

Monica Eav Glicken [00:28:13] Absolutely. Thanks for having me and looking forward to our continued partnership. Thanks for all you're doing leading the UCI Law community.

Outro [00:28:24] Thank you for listening to UCI Law Talks. For all our latest news, follow UCI Law on Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn.